The Science Behind Ketones as Fuel Source with Founder of Ketone IQ Michael Brandt

Guest [00:00:00]: You ever feel that, like, overtraining when you're like, you've you train really hard and, like, you have a hard time sleeping? I don't know if you ever felt I I sometimes get that. You know?

Cory Nagler [00:00:10]: I've definitely felt that.

Guest [00:00:11]: Yeah. Ketones seem to help with that, that your body is basically in this high stress state where you're really taxed and you know you should be resting, but your body is, like, you're too switched on. Your cortisol's up or your sympathetic nervous system's, like, switched on, and ketones seem to reverse that. They seem to let your body know that there is energy abundance and to kind of relax.

Cory Nagler [00:00:39]: When Michael Brandt started KetoneIQ back in 2017, he he embarked on a journey to make an energy source not many people had heard of as popular as caffeine and electrolytes. Ketones are naturally produced in the body when there's not enough glucose for energy. But Michael's goal was to make a drinkable format for athletes to harness its benefits for energy and focus. Fast forward to today, and you can find their supplements in specialty stores and online retailers everywhere. I had a lot of questions, so we brought Michael on the podcast today to tell us how he turned a small start up into a multimillion dollar brand with dozens of pro athlete contracts. We'll also chat about what ketones are and what the sign says about using them to benefit performance or enhance recovery. Now if you haven't tried ketones before, the taste is not great to say the least. But if you're willing to put up with it, there's a lot of signs to back up the performance gains.

Cory Nagler [00:01:32]: Plus, Michael has said there might be some better taste on the horizon. I was a little skeptical of ketones at first, and you're probably curious like I was. So I wanted to find out more. To do that, let's get into my interview with founder of Keytone IQ, Michael Brandt. Hello, runners, and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast, where our goal is making you a better runner with each and every episode. I'm your showrunner, Corey Nagler. And I'm not an elite runner, but together, we'll explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level. This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at runnersconnect.net, where you can find the best running information on the Internet as well as training plans to fit every runner and every budget.

Cory Nagler [00:02:25]: One of my favorite things about this podcast is when I can bring together my love of business and running, and we've pretty much got all those things on this episode with, bringing you on, Michael. I I I understand that you are both the founder of Keytone IQ, but also a runner yourself. Is that right?

Guest [00:02:41]: Yes. Yes. That's right, Corey. Excited to be here and talk about both. To me, there's so much overlap, so much interconnectivity between entrepreneurship and running. I'm a two forty marathoner, so, like, pretty pretty good amateur. There's definitely faster people, definitely slower people, and, entrepreneur as well. I started KetoneIQ and we're the fastest growing energy shot.

Guest [00:03:04]: Have a really interesting technology. Got started with the Department of Defense, work with a lot of elite operators. And one of the quotes that always stuck with me, a lot of people have probably heard, is the idea that entrepreneurship is a marathon, not a sprint. And so to me, there's so much overlap, and so excited to unpack that with you.

Cory Nagler [00:03:21]: I love that expression especially coming from somebody who's a pretty competitive marathoner because you know just how hard it still is in the marathon and just how much you're pushing as as much as to that expression might sound like you're taking it easy and in it for the long haul.

Guest [00:03:34]: Yeah. I think it has different levels of meaning to it, which is that marathon's really long. Training for a marathon is really long, but then the fastest marathon runners are going at a speed that most people would consider a sprint. Right? Your pros are going at, like, a five minute mile pace sub five minute. Even, like, my pace, I'm around a six minute mile. Like, a lot of normal people would consider that fast for a mile, a lap around the track even. And so it's there's a couple levels of meaning on it, which is that you gotta be in there for the long haul, show up every day. No one day makes you a zero or a hero.

Guest [00:04:09]: And then also that there is a there is a way to get really good at it that I'm sure if you're sitting next to pick your favorite entrepreneur, Steve Jobs, whatever, sitting next to Coco Chanel. Pick your favorite entrepreneur. You're sitting next to them. They're probably moving at a pace that would seem like a sprint. They're just like, if they've been doing it for decades, they're flowing in a level. Like, I don't know what I don't know what Oprah Winfrey's, like, day looks like, her deal flow. Like, she's obviously obviously operating in some, like, billionaire level of of empire building entrepreneurship that not there just yet. And so it's it's interesting to think about what, you know, the gains that you can get by showing up every single day in, you know, kinda anything that you do, but business and running, I think it's really exemplified.

Cory Nagler [00:04:56]: Yeah. Do you find that still applies? Like, the same principle of kinda training to get faster as an entrepreneur?

Guest [00:05:02]: I do. Yeah. I think that everything is set in a rep and practice for the next thing, that every you're always developing. You're always getting better. I just try to look at everything as a as an opportunity to get better at do well at the thing, but also use it as an opportunity to get even better at for the next one. You're always getting better at pitching your product or, you know, recruiting people to work with you or fundraising or selling into a new retailer. Like, you're always getting better and better at, you know, having different difficult conversate well, you know, early days negotiating a $10,000 deal might be a big deal. And at some point, you're negotiating a million dollar, 10 million, a hundred million dollar deal.

Guest [00:05:42]: And it's it's like running in that like, whatever your ceiling is, it, like, feels hard. And then whatever used to be, your ceiling feels easy. But you're always, like, pushing up and and it's that another one of those truisms that it doesn't get easier. You just just get faster. Like, business, I wouldn't say gets easier. So I can negotiate a $10,000 deal deal, whatever, like, initial you're getting a business off the ground, your minimum order quantity, your initial like, you're, like, begging people to work with you to to get started. And if you're bankrolling it personally and if you depending on what your personal bankroll is, you you're really squeezing every single dollar. You get to a certain point where we're not, like, a big company at this point, but we have a few dozen people working and for us.

Guest [00:06:26]: And, yeah, it's, you know, 8 figure bit it's a real business. And the the size of of, you know, problems and opportunities that they they feel really important, but they used like, the thousand dollar thing used to feel really important, and now it's like the million dollar thing feels really important. And I I should be so lucky as to have the, you know, like, billion dollar thing feel like the the unit. It's like everyone's doing, like, four Cole Hawker is doing 400 meter repeats just like just like me. Right? But, like, his his experience of it is maybe so the experience might actually be quite similar. Like, you're pushing it all. You're absolutely gas. You're giving all you got, but just, like, working at a different speed, a different output for that feeling.

Guest [00:07:09]: And, you're always trying to, you know, go to the next level on it.

Cory Nagler [00:07:13]: Yeah. I wanna talk more about the product in a second, but just first, you brought up Cole Hawker, and I do know that he's one of your sponsored athletes. Have you had the chance to actually see him in person working out?

Guest [00:07:22]: Yeah. We hung out in Eugene when I was out there last. He happened to be back in town. Went to Oregon, and, he happened to be back in town. And that was a cool just good good to catch up with him. He's a really interesting guy. Like, very smart, very thoughtful, and, also very just, like, clever, creative. Like, just thinking a lot about, you know, the business of running and where things are going from here and how to take the accolades and he'd already won the Olympics at that point.

Guest [00:07:53]: How to take that to you know, everyone everyone wants to be a great athlete, but then also how do you be like Shaq? How do you be like, he's great at basketball, but then how do you be how do you own, like, 87 wing stops too? Like, whatever the analogy of that is. Like, how do you take your athletic success and parlay that into being multifaceted on and off the track? And, just, yeah, very thoughtful, ambitious young guy. Very cool. Very cool, dude.

Cory Nagler [00:08:19]: Super cool. Yeah. I think we need more of that to help grow the sport. So you founded this company, Ketone IQ. You kinda touched on this a little bit, but I understand it kind of started with maybe more of a a military use. This idea of ketones, I think some people might be familiar with it a little bit in either a medical context or knowledge of how your body produces it. But for those of us who didn't study it at Stanford or or have a nutritional background, what actually are ketones? And and maybe how does it differ when it's in a product like Keton IQ from the ketones that your body naturally produces?

Guest [00:08:53]: That's a great question. And how I came into this to begin with was I got into marathoning and engineer by background, and I started to run into energy issues. Like, how do you I I felt like I only had enough so much energy in the day to train and to work. And it very quickly became obvious to me. If I could have more energy, I could train better and or I could show up better for, you know, have more energy for the rest of the day outside of training as well. And I started thinking a lot about that. Like, how do you have more energy? And, you know, everyone in the world wants to have more energy, and everyone's trying to optimize their sleep and kinda have caffeine and this and that. Everyone's trying to get more energy and, like, looking at how your body actually makes and creates energy from the food that you eat and the into the activities that you do solve this molecule, this ketone molecule.

Guest [00:09:45]: Your body uses a lot of there's a couple major metabolites that you use. You use blood sugar, glucose, which from carbohydrates. A lot of people are very familiar with that. And you also use this thing called ketones. And your brain especially uses a lot of ketones for energy because fat cannot cross the blood brain barrier. So in order to use fat, you need to turn it into ketones, and then it just turns out that our brain is very adept at using ketones for energy. And so the our muscular cells or cardiovascular heart cells, all the cells in our body can use ketones, especially our brain, but everywhere as well. And and so seeing that, okay, your body is really this, like, good at using ketones as people have been doing, different types of adaptations, whether it's fasted training or low carbohydrate diet to, like, do doing different adaptations in order to make their body make more ketones.

Guest [00:10:40]: I thought it was very interesting. Like, well, what if you could get these benefits? What if you could get this energy, this metabolite, but you could what if you could make it outside of the body and then drink it? So instead of having to, like, convert it from your own fat into ketones that your body then uses efficiently, what if you could get it outside of your body? And that actually turned out to be, this is the kind of, a dumb slash smart question that a lot of entrepreneurs maybe have, which is, like, yeah. It's a very simple easy idea. Like, why can't you just go to the store and buy it the way you can buy protein or electrolytes, Which took it ended up taking years to figure that out that in the the initial hook was that in 2019, we got a $6,000,000 contract with the United States Department of Defense because they were really interested in better energy sources for sustaining special operator performance, especially in these demanding context where you're up for 36 straight, you're in a low oxygen altitude hypoxic environment. You're pushed to different levels of stress and strain. You still have to perform well. You still have to be, you know, accurate at shooting. Yes.

Guest [00:11:48]: You still have to be, like, tactically sharp. So that was very interesting because that that got things going. It was a good just first tracks in the snow to get the product going. It was very expensive, tasted kinda crazy, wasn't that easy to make. But, like, hey. We had a we had a customer. Like, we something stuck there. And then after that was in 2019, and it was a three year long project.

Guest [00:12:12]: And that helped to get things rolling because as I was going, started selling it to Tour de France athletes, started selling it to different ultra marathoners, marathoners, Ironman, started percolating the other sports a little bit like, MMA, mixed martial arts community started getting into it. Some other folks started picking it up, and then and then it kinda snowballed from there and, like, really took the technology that we developed with the Department of Defense and launched it to the broader consumer world in 2022 and then, have been off to the races ever since then. It's been it's been fun. Yeah. I can can barely keep up with it. It's been really fun since since then.

Cory Nagler [00:12:52]: Was the goal always to get there where it's going to the end consumer, or or was there a time when you thought maybe that was going to be its primary application? Was, you know, with the army and and, defense institutions?

Guest [00:13:02]: I was always interested in in bigger. I thought that the military was a really interesting genesis point, really interesting proof point to get started, really, you know, you wanna pressure test. I think a way about how, a lot of products have this kind of evolution where, you know, in the beginning, there was, you know, 10 computers in the world. And it was, like, Stanford and MIT and, like, five other places. And then now everyone has a computer in their pocket. And you see a lot of these curves that evolve like that. Like, early early days, HOKA and Solomon were, like, running runners shoe companies. Now my dad wears HOKA to go grocery shopping on the weekend.

Guest [00:13:39]: Do you see a lot of these curves of of technologies or products or ingredients that start with this sort of professional highly applied use case because that's where the is the most urgent need and maybe that customers that that audience, that community is down to, you know, pay more or they're down for it to have more friction because, like, they're really experiencing the benefit. They're really drawn to that thing. They're okay if it's weird, if it doesn't they can't pronounce the name, whatever. They're oh, people are early adopters are generally okay with some weirdness, soldering parts together. And then my stance as entrepreneurs, like, yeah. That's awesome. Like, you want that grassroots, but then you also wanna be thinking bigger. You wanna take it to, like, you know, Gatorade got started with the Florida Gators, helping the Florida Gators football team in the summer to replenish their electrolytes.

Guest [00:14:26]: And that was a very, like, high urgent need use case. But then okay. Like, you wanna think bigger. How hey. How do we get electrolyzed out to a billion people? So to me, it was always both. It was always like, yeah. Focus on, you know, focus on your first thousand customers and also have this bigger vision for, hey. You know, everyone could use more energy.

Guest [00:14:45]: Like, if you can help take the energy market and evolve it where everyone knows energy drinks, energy shots is a, you know, $80,000,000,000 global market. If you could take that and evolve it and make a dent in it and and innovate inside of it, then that can be a really big opportunity. So to answer your question, it was always both. There was always, like, focus on the hard course, but with this bigger vision of of everyone could use more energy.

Cory Nagler [00:15:10]: Yeah. And I think there there's a lot of different markets you've got into because as you said, energy is pretty ubiquitous. But curious, who are those early adopters? I know you list a few different target markets on your site, whether it's people trying to get a little bit more energy or or or diet or, you know, those professional athletes. Is there one who are maybe a little bit more keen to dive in first?

Guest [00:15:30]: Outside of the DOD, it was really interesting that the pro cyclists pro Peloton really picked it up. The the cycling and running have a lot in common, and cycling in some ways even is even more this way where it's very uni dimensional. It's like get from a to b as quickly as possible. If you take something like soccer, tennis, other sports, your stamina is a component, but there's a lot of other components. And so the game is not won or lost strictly on stamina in basketball or hockey or soccer. It it's part of it, but there's ball handling. There's field IQ. There's all these other things.

Guest [00:16:09]: Whereas in running and in cycling in cycling in particular is interesting because, like, it's just so dialed. Like, you have the computer in front of your face, and you can see your watts, and everyone's trying to get their watts per kilogram. And and cyclists are just especially, I would say, quantitative about everything that they do. And so it's really easy when something registers as a performance improver that it you can pick it up really quickly if you're measuring your watts and you're staring at this computer in front of your face and you're saying, hey. Like, I have higher power than I did, like, without this product. So that was the initial just like the pro Peloton use. And also just, you know, the application of ketones novel energy sources, especially good for stamina, and it's helpful for performance. It's also helpful for recovery.

Guest [00:16:55]: And so something like the Tour de France is interesting because it's a three week long race. Right? It's like every day you're racing, and they write down your time from the end of the day, and they add it to the next day, the next day, and next. So you have this cumulative running total time. And at the end of it's twenty three days. There's two rest days in the middle. So it's twenty one days of racing across twenty three days in the month of July. At the end of it, whoever has the lowest aggregate total time wins the whole thing. And so it starts to be really important to have good nutrition today as well as, like, today, you're already, like you know, you're setting this the table for how you're gonna do tomorrow.

Guest [00:17:33]: And ketones help with both of those. They help with your energy right now today. They also help you with recovery. All that takes energy and ketones the type of energy that ketones provide is especially helpful to both of those. And so the Pro Tour team started getting really into it. And then we actually started working really closely with one of them called team Visma, Lisa bike. They've won two of the last three tours of France, and they're they're awesome, for peep people who follow us for Vinga Gar's team. Like, everyone probably anyone watching the sport knows that knows that.

Guest [00:18:10]: But for runners, good like, I think the contact the important context there is just that it's, you know, top top of the heap as far as cycling teams. And we started working with them on on further research. So they were already using the product, loved it, and then we started saying, hey. Like, what are your other questions about, like, how, you know, how we know health with recovery. Like, we wanna really discover, like, the more of the mechanisms of action for how it like, how what specifically is it doing to help with recovery? So we did a a big study with them where we looked at EPO production, which is EPO is a hormone that helps your red blood cells to carry more oxygen, and we saw that when you take ketones regularly, you increase your EPO levels. The same is very similar to, like, the benefit you would get from altitude training. So if you do both, then you get, like, extra super elevated EPO and ability to carry blood oxygen. So done a lot of work with team b's Melisa bike, and it's interesting because a lot of those findings apply into other sports.

Guest [00:19:09]: Human physiology is human physiology. It's true for cyclists, also true for runners, also true for a soccer player. But it's been interesting to to study with with cyclists and runners just because of how, like, how pure the, like, the sport the sports are as they're being very unidimensional. Just how good is your stamina.

Cory Nagler [00:19:31]: And in terms of those benefits or efficiency gains, consuming ketones compared to other energy sources, Does it come from that EPO? For example, like, why am I better off consuming e or ketone IQ rather as an energy source compared to just downing electrolyte drink?

Guest [00:19:47]: Yeah. That's a great question. There's a couple different ways that ketones help. And, generally, try to not position it as this either or thing that carbs, electrolytes, caffeine, that ketones aren't meant to replace any of those per se. It's more you can think of it as like a nitro, like something you add into your gas tank that makes it work even better. You you wouldn't want to, like, swap out carbs for ketones. The whole idea or electrolytes for ketones. Like, they they provide different purposes.

Guest [00:20:15]: And what's interesting about ketones is that they go through this a different pathway. When we're talking about fuel, I mean, let's we can we can separate into a couple different buckets where we're talking about something that is truly energy, something with calories in it that your body's gonna turn those calories into ATP to fire your muscles and fire your neurons and actually do work. You're inside of the typical macronutrients as fat, protein, carbohydrates. Ketones, interestingly, also have calories. So this fourth macronutrient where every gram of ketones contains seven calories. It actually has energy inside of it. It was really interesting. It's not every day a new macronutrient comes about.

Guest [00:20:54]: And on the other hand, caffeine, electrolytes, those are micronutrients or or, I mean, you could classify caffeine as a drug. Like, these are all eight those are all a caloric. They don't have calories. They interact. They can kind of increase your perception of how energetic you're feeling. Like, electrolytes can make you feel more energized. Certainly, caffeine can, but they don't have calories in them per se. They help your body to do metabolism and to do its its functions, but they're not actual direct sources of calorie.

Guest [00:21:28]: Like, caffeine blocks your sleep hormone adenosine, so it makes you feel less tired, gives you this, like, adrenal spikes. Like, you feel this perception of more energy, but there's not actually more energy in it. Electrolyze help all of your synapses. Like, you need you need salt, potassium, magnesium to fire your synapses so that your your, muscles, your neurons, all, like, properly function. So it's all it's all helpful, basically. Like, it's all they're all different health ways of helping your body to functionally. All different parts of a, I would say, adequate holistic fueling strategy. What's interesting about ketones, to zoom in on ketones, is that it goes through a different pathway from carbohydrates and fats and and proteins or carbohydrates is, like, the general standard of how you wanna fuel.

Guest [00:22:11]: And it's been a really lot of push recently on, like, carb maxing. I, like, got, like, David Roche pushing, like, 20, hundred 40 grams of carbs an hour, winning ultra marathon. Like, how much carbs can you have per hour? What's interesting about ketones is that on top of whatever carb maxing you're doing, you can also have ketones. And ketones go through this different pathway where where once you've carb maxed, ketones go through this other pathway. They're not mediated by the same set of hormones. They bring energy into your cells, additive on top of your carbohydrates. And so they're able to you're able you're able to saturate with more total energy availability. And then it also helps because it goes to different places.

Guest [00:22:56]: Like, your brain especially picks up a lot of ketones. So a lot of times you feel more, like, mentally switched on if you've had if you have ketones as part of your fueling strategy. If it and by that, I mean, like, the way people typically use it is it'll have, like, every forty five minutes, every hour, or, you know, every three or four carb gels that you're having. You also have a ketone IQ, then you're tapping into that dual fueling where you're getting calories from carbohydrates as well as from ketones.

Cory Nagler [00:23:24]: Yeah. When you're running your own races, how do you work in KetoneIQ with your overall fueling strategy?

Guest [00:23:30]: It's pretty similar to what I was just saying as far as, like, every every three gels, I'll have it. Like, if I'm doing a I have a marathon this Sunday, here in Ventura, California.

Cory Nagler [00:23:44]: Nice. Good luck.

Guest [00:23:45]: Thank you. Thank you, sweetie. Good one. And I'll have a gel every three miles, and then every three gels, I'll have a ketone IQ. So it ends up being, like, every yeah. About every 45, four fifty minutes, I'm having a ketone IQ. I'll have beforehand I'll have, usually right before the start line, like, five minutes before, I'll have a gel and a ketone IQ just to, like, fully top up. And I'm working backwards in there.

Guest [00:24:13]: Like, the morning of, I'm having a a bagel. I'm having water. I'm having some some carb drink. The day before, the couple days before, I'm carb loading, all that all that stuff. So I show up on the start line fully, glycogen replete, have a little bit more carbs, have some ketone IQ on top, and then throughout the race, I'm trying to I'm, yeah, trying to get to that, like, hundred grams of carbs per hour while also having ketone IQ every forty five minutes to an hour.

Cory Nagler [00:24:39]: Do you think at any point we could see gels that actually have ketones in them if if a a lot of athletes are already taking them together with carbs?

Guest [00:24:46]: Yeah. I think that's where this goes, basically, is that we start, like, stacking, combining. We've tried to play Switzerland here. Like, we're we haven't launched our own carb gel because let's just be friends with all the carb gels. Like, I I have no you know, there's a lot of great ones out there for different reasons, for different uses, for different peoples, like different some people really like the, flavor profile of this brand or some people this they digest this one really well. So a lot of people honestly mix and match a lot because you kinda you kinda get tired of this one, you move on to this one. So we've tried to just be like, hey. You can plug us into whatever carbohydrates that you're using to fuel.

Guest [00:25:25]: I'm jury's out. And if we'll launch our own, like, full stack carb and ketone thing, I think more likely, you know, we're in some early talks on is to have ketone IQ, like, inside of it. Like, basically, carb gel companies coming to us and say, hey. We wanna do an addition that has ketone IQ inside of it, and then we're able to fuel that with our ingredient. But for for now, like, right now today, people are generally having two separate products and just, like, slamming both of those into their running tights.

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Guest [00:28:48]: Yeah. Well, good news for you and for audience. We recently launched a few new flavors that are just kinda getting out into the world. So they, like, they may or may not be in your local running shoe store just yet. They're definitely or we have them on ketone.com and and Amazon, and we have some of them already in Sprouts and Vitamin Shoppe and few other Equinox, Fleet Feet, few other places that carry us. And not to mention this, all the all these amazing independent stores. And, yeah, it's been a big big shift for sure that, like, the original stuff was pretty crazy tasting, and now we've come out with a few different flavors. We have a green apple one.

Guest [00:29:29]: We have a raspberry lemonade one and a a peach flavor. And so that seems to be helping out a whole lot where in a way, it's kinda cool that, like is there anything earlier? Like, it's a good sign if you have something that's, like, a little bit difficult to use and people are still getting into it for the benefits. Like, early version of Uber was you had to, like, text some number and a car would show up. Like, the early version of kinda anything, it's sometimes can have some friction to it and if people are still coming I'm saying this is an entrepreneur mode if people are are thinking about it in those terms. If you if you get the minimum viable thing out, like, you really have to do, like, one or two things well, and it's it's a good sign actually if you do those things well. Like, you have known friction points. Like, maybe it doesn't taste the best. Maybe it's a little expensive, but, like, you're getting the one or two things really right and people are coming to it.

Guest [00:30:19]: You're probably not gonna get, like you're probably not gonna take over the world in that mode. It's still you're the analogy is like the the early computer with that's like the size of a U Haul truck that's like, I don't know, a kilobyte of memory. It's cool that, like, that has some application and use in the world, but then eventually, okay, you actually have to sand down those friction points and, you know, make your product taste good and and do all all those other things. So, yes, very much, very excited by the new flavors. I think it's just turns a whole new page for our business just to open up the, like, window of possibility of, like, when, where, who can who can take it.

Cory Nagler [00:30:59]: Yeah. I'm super excited to see that come out. And I think, you know, Ketone IQ is is not unique in that respect and that there's a lot of different supplements out that are really, really effective that take some time before they iterate into versions that are hyperpalatable. And a couple examples that come to mind are, like, beet powder. I'm yet to find one that that tastes good. Or, like, sodium bicarb is suddenly taking over the running world, and it just looks disgusting to see people putting together these, like, sodium bicarb mixes and downing it. But for those early adopters, those athletes who are super hooked on the sport, they'll pretty much do whatever it takes to enhance performance.

Guest [00:31:31]: Yeah. I always keep my eyes open for those things that look a little weird, but that people are doing it anyway. It's interesting when someone's, yeah, like, mixing together the, like, weird space scoop, like, bicarb. Like, I you have to believe that that's gonna evolve and become somehow easier, better, like, less friction, less of a, like, science fair project every time you wanna do it. But it's cool. I mean, it's, I think, an interesting signal that, like, that people are willing to jump through those hoops and do it, must, you know, must have some benefit. I think it's it's interesting proof point on it. But then, yeah, curious to see kinda where that evolves.

Cory Nagler [00:32:11]: Yeah. Do you think the actual container itself changes too? I'm just thinking I know right now I've I've got, like, the peach flavor with me here, and they're, you know, they're they're pretty compact, but I could still envision carrying three or four of these for anyone who's watching the video being hard in a marathon.

Guest [00:32:26]: Yeah. Yeah. So we have we made a, a pouch that was really popular. It was, like, a limited time run that we did with our Visa and Lisa bike tour de France team partners. That was pretty popular. We might we might continue that, bring that back. We made, like, a soft soft shell pouch. It's a little bit easier to slip in.

Guest [00:32:48]: Yeah. I couple other ideas for how to just how to innovate on that. Like, you know, you can take the shot and you can let you're gonna pour the shot out into a soft shell flask or into a running bottle or into a Camelback or or hydration vest. A few different ways that we yeah. You can take it. Yeah. So definitely something we're thinking about.

Cory Nagler [00:33:09]: Sweet. And from a timing perspective, would you pretty much just take it whenever you would take curves? I know you talked about taking it, like, before, during, and after exercise. But is there any variation in in what that timing looks like relative to your effort?

Guest [00:33:25]: It's pretty one to one. It's like whenever you're feeling, it's good to take it. Well, the one thing I would say is it's it's helpful afterwards. I mean, carbohydrate is helpful afterwards as well. So it's nothing super novel there. It's that it's just that I think a lot of people can appreciate that recovery takes energy as well, that after you have a good workout or a race, your body's doing a lot to rebuild, repair, and you have that kind of training benefit, that super compensation where, like, okay. You train really hard. Your body's gonna go create more red blood vessels and or more blood vessels and more red blood cells.

Guest [00:34:02]: You're gonna go create more muscle mass. You're gonna go create more your your lungs are going to expand. You're gonna go, like, do work inside of your body, and all that takes energy. And ketones help with those processes as well. They help to accelerate muscle glycogen uptake, and they help to accelerate, muscle protein resynthesis. And they help in general just with what we were saying earlier, EPO production and rate of angiogenesis, red blood cell formation that basically your body requires a lot of energy when you're recovering and ketones are helpful there. So a lot of people will have it, you know, some mix. Like, they'll have it during and or after working out depending on what benefits that they're really most keen on.

Cory Nagler [00:34:51]: And are there any specific type of people who maybe benefit more than others from ketones or who might prefer to take it before as opposed to after?

Guest [00:34:59]: I would say longer events. It's it's good for longer, like, more more long events, like half marathon on up that it's it's probably for the shorter events, it's fueling is less of an issue. There's other things that matter for, like, a a five k or a 800 or something. And for a lot of shorter distance athletes, they're more interested in the recovery benefits because just, again, fueling is, like, not relevant. You're usually not slamming a a gel shot in the middle of a five k. But if you're training a lot for five k, you are putting out a lot of volume and you you are trying to improve your recovery as much as possible. So a lot of what we see is a long distance athletes are having it, like, during during training and recovery, and then shorter distance athletes are more taking it for recovery. Some people just like the way it feels, so they'll take it during the training anyway.

Guest [00:35:55]: Like, they'll, like, they just like the kind of mental shift that it gives you. So have it before even if, like, per se, you generally don't need to fuel for a five k.

Cory Nagler [00:36:08]: Yeah. And one of the other things that stands out about the container is I know you call them a shot. So I'm envisioning probably one shot is one dosage. But unlike a gel, it's a little bit easier to take part of it and then screw it. Do you do you think it makes sense to always take a full serving, or or do you ever recommend to athletes that they space it out a bit?

Guest [00:36:26]: Yeah. Some people like to space it out kinda throughout an effort. I like to slam it back just like boom, go. I like that it's liquid. I think sometimes that's nice actually to switch it up with, like, a lot of the the gels are more viscous. It's a nice way to break it up. It kinda, like, clears your mouth, and, it's just easy to get down. It's easier to swallow down.

Guest [00:36:53]: Some people will space it out. I would say, like, a lot of times you're you're trying to get, like, max the amount of energy that you're getting down, and so people are, I would say, more so just taking it and going. Where people tend to, like, portion it out is a lot of people have it at their desk or throughout their day to day life. They're just they're try it's a nice source of energy that there's no sugar in it. It's really metabolically healthy. It has this nice, like, subjective feel to it where your brain's kinda switched on. So a lot of times, it's the white the white collar use case where someone's, like, at their desk going through work or they're at a either at a board meeting or they're on a podcast. They're, like, doing something cerebral.

Guest [00:37:32]: And then in those cases, we send tend to see people more, like, sipping it and, like, can having a little bit now and then they keep topped up. Because, also, your energy demands in that situation aren't as high as when you're, like, running a marathon all out.

Cory Nagler [00:37:45]: Is that a use case that you envision becoming more popular? Like, that white collar worker, may maybe a student just carrying around Keytone IQ, is that boost of energy?

Guest [00:37:55]: Yes. I think that is potentially bigger because I think certainly so many people that are, like, running a marathon. I think it's interesting to work with really athletic people because they get it. Like, they understand how to train. They understand how to race. They understand if some if something's really if their body's responding well to something or not. So it's it's really good to, like if you're getting to invent caffeine for the first time, I think it'd also be a great idea to, like, give it to some some runners. And, like, you'd probably feel faster if you if you'd never had caffeine in your life before, and and then all of a sudden you had some caffeine.

Guest [00:38:29]: I think a lot of people would would feel faster. So it's a nice community, nice proving ground to develop the product in. But then, yeah, ultimately, everyone wants more energy. So, like, the person that's maybe working out a few times a week, but, like, generally wants to be healthy, but maybe not, like, super duper athlete. Well, maybe they maybe they're the way they discover the product is because they, you know, sign up for a marathon or triathlon. That's how they got into it, but then they started using it throughout their day to day life. And yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, like, people need energy for everything.

Guest [00:39:08]: It's, I think, the most important problem in a sense. It's like the zero with order problem that everyone has. Because once you can have more energy, you can solve all the other problems in your life. You you just you have more energy. You can go do everything else. You can be more present at work. You can be have more energy to go pick up your kids. You can go do everything with more energy.

Guest [00:39:30]: So to me, it's unbounded. Like like, getting KetoneIQ everywhere. It's interesting to start with, like, super athletes and, like, broader athlete set, and then there's a lot of opportunity to go kinda everywhere when you think about, like, who's drinking any kind of energy drink or shot or coffee or anything. It's pretty broad set of almost everybody.

Cory Nagler [00:39:55]: Yeah. Is it broad to the point where you think everybody could just take a shot in the morning as as one of their daily supplements?

Guest [00:40:01]: I think we'll get there. I think that ketones will be as big as electrolytes or protein or these other kind of nutritional primitives. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [00:40:10]: And you you talked a lot about taking ketones together with carbs and and the benefits and combining them in your fueling. For that desk worker who's using it for energy, if they take a coffee every morning, does the same principle apply in terms of taking it with coffee, or is it more of an alternative in that in that context?

Guest [00:40:25]: That's a good question. Yeah. Some people like to stack it. I personally like stacking carbs and or caffeine and ketones. It's this nice effect where, like, the caffeine gets you immediately stimulated. You really kinda snap to action, and then ketones last longer. They're providing your brain with actual energy. So it's this nice, like, dual stage energy boost.

Guest [00:40:48]: A lot of people like ketones also as a replacement to caffeine. And, like, later in the day, especially in the afternoon, a lot of people, I think, are cutting back on caffeine in the afternoon or cutting back on a total caffeine intake throughout the day so that they can have better quality sleep. At a certain point, it's diminishing returns. Like, you caffeinate too much today. You erode your sleep quality, and then you're not gonna feel like it tomorrow. And then you're just on this hamster wheel. You need more caffeine tomorrow. So a lot of people I'm especially with the proliferation of smart devices, Apple Watches, Whoops, Auras.

Guest [00:41:21]: Like, a lot of people are mindful of their sleep score. They're trying to have maybe a cup or two a coffee a day. And then when they need other another source of energy, hey. It's two, 3PM. I want something that gives me a pick me up, but I don't wanna have caffeine. That tends to be, like those tend to be our two main entry points for ketone q. One is, yeah, first thing in the day with your caffeine have this nice, like, one two punch, and then people also have it in the afternoon when it's when they wanna to reenergize, but they don't wanna have caffeine. Ketones are interesting because it doesn't interfere with your sleep.

Guest [00:41:53]: You you don't have this, like, six hour half life of caffeine where it's disrupting your sleep long after you took it.

Cory Nagler [00:42:00]: Yeah. That's an interesting use. I've I've never thought of it as sort of a replacement for caffeine that doesn't have the lingering impact, but I could totally see that, you know, you're a little lethargic after after lunch. But a lot of the time, you know, if if I'm eating late at one or two PM, I don't always want a coffee for fear that it's gonna keep me up at night.

Guest [00:42:15]: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's real. I think a lot of people feel that way.

Cory Nagler [00:42:19]: Yeah. %. In terms of, like, the way this interacts with your body, I I know the sort of more natural process, as you said, is it's a way for your body to access fast stores. But when your body's going through that process, oftentimes, it it it might be a sign that you're you're under fueled or your body is almost attacking itself to get enough nutrients. How is it different to take it as a supplement and and maybe with carbs?

Guest [00:42:42]: Yeah. It's a good point that a lot of times when your body's making ketones, it's because you're at this carb deficit that you're either not eating enough carbs or you're exercising so much that you're you've tapped out all your carbs and your body is really starting to draw on fat and turn that into ketones. And so it can be for some people, that's a good thing. If you're trying to lose weight, you you want to be burning fat, turning into ketones. It can be a positive thing, but it can also be a sign of under fueling. And if you're not trying to lose weight, then then it can be a sign of that you're not eating enough in general and to eat more. What's interesting is, like, can can decoupling these concepts of ketogenesis where your body makes ketones from, like, the ketone itself. Like, ketones itself have this set of properties where they're extremely metabolically efficient, where they turn into ATP using less oxygen than carbohydrates.

Guest [00:43:35]: So you're able to get more energy for every breath that you're taking. You're able to create more ATP, more cellular energy. And that's that's, like, the core crux of why it's interesting and why that DOD was interested to begin with in, like, hypoxic and other stressful, strenuous environments. That's why it works for endurance athletes is you can create more energy with less oxygen. Ketogenesis itself is, it's a means to be able to make ketones that when your body makes ketones themselves, you you have access to this magic molecule, but it can also be a signal that you're under fueled in other areas. Whereas if you're well fueled and you're you're having other source of fuel and you're you're including that you're you're having ketones, then you're able to access these properties without jumping through all these hoops. That was kind of the insight. Like, in the early days, I because I was doing a a lot of intermittent fasting.

Guest [00:44:28]: I did a seven day long fast at one point. And it was interesting, like, doing blood finger pricks every few hours and seeing, okay, my blood ketone levels were going up. Because, yeah, you're running out of carbohydrates and your body your brain needs to function, so you start making ketones. Seeing that my body was making ketones is really interesting. And so a lot of the literature around ketones being really efficient, I was like, oh, what if you could get access to this without having to jump through all these hoops? Like, without having to put yourself in this, like, carbohydrate decrement deficit to be able to make ketones? Like, what if you could have the best of both worlds where, like, you'd have access to this really efficient metabolite that your body usually makes kind of as this backup super efficient energy source? What if you could have access to that while also being fully replete? That was the initial kinda moment. That's what's really, like, innovative about the product because it lets you have elevated ketone levels at the same time you have elevated carbohydrate levels and gets you in this novel physiological state where you just have a lot of metabolic substrate availability all at the same time.

Cory Nagler [00:45:31]: And is there any way that your body can naturally get into that state where you have fully topped up glycogen stores and at the same time, this availability of ketones?

Guest [00:45:41]: No. Because you would it's kind of either or. It's like you're only making ketones when you're low on carbs.

Cory Nagler [00:45:47]: Yeah. Really interesting. Coming coming back to that seven day fast you mentioned, my only question on that would be why. What was the goal of this experiment?

Guest [00:45:57]: And I've also important to caveat. Like, I was not training at this time. I was I was just, I I would not definitely not recommend that. The point was what fasting in general, I think, is interesting. I think that this is before I got really seriously into marathon running. I'll just caveat all that. I don't really do intermittent fasting while I'm train I'm running, you know, 90 miles a week. I'm trying to fuel as much as possible.

Guest [00:46:24]: Before I was in into that or, you know, I've had kinda different chapters of things. I I think that if you're not exercising every day, there's some benefit that you can get from fasting. I think if you are exercising every day, you probably just need to fuel enough. If you're not exercising every day like, if you're eating seven days a week, but you're only exercising three days a week, there might be this mismatch. And fasting is interesting because it challenges your metabolism in a similar way to exercise without without being exercised, where you you burn down your tank and you force your body to operate really efficiently off of this low tank. Some other special things happen inside of fasting. You get autophagy. Your body starts, like, consuming waste products, dead cells, other kind of buildup that you don't necessarily want around.

Guest [00:47:16]: Your body starts to consume all that. So it's it can be this kinda healthy, natural healing process. You get this, like, more metabolic flexibility, meaning, like, you get your body gets really good at making ketones and using ketones. Your body gets actually better at using carbohydrate. When you don't have anything to eat for a day and a half, you get a lot more insulin sensitivity. And insulin is really important for how you process carbohydrates. So you're able to basically use fuel better afterwards. It's not you get a lot of these benefits as well from exercising.

Guest [00:47:47]: So I think what's been interesting about fasting is is is kinda taken over as a broader kind of cultural movement a lot of people have gotten into. I think it's interesting. I recommend it if, like, as part of maybe if you're not training in a at a high level, but you want to stay, like, healthy and lean, that I think fasting can be a part of that. I think if you're exercising every day, you probably need to eat more. But if you're exercising a few times a week, I think fasting is actually really interesting, kind of adjacent metabolic challenge you can put on your body that's, like, similar benefits to exercise without being exercise.

Cory Nagler [00:48:31]: I think I'm a little surprised to hear you say that for just one reason. And that's because as you've touched on, ketones actually do have calories. So you're not in a state of fasting if you're if you're taking them. So putting aside exercise, you made it very clear, you definitely want to fuel if you're putting in 90 mile weeks or even just if you're exercising in general. But for that more office worker type context, where does that come into play where maybe there's benefits at times to fasting, but also to using ketones as a source of energy?

Guest [00:49:01]: One thing that's interesting when you're if you're fasting and you're at your desk, like, your your body is starting to produce a lot of ketones, and they're circulating through your system. And a lot of people will notice they actually feel this kind of energetic feeling when they're fasting, and a lot of that's due to the fact that your brain is running on ketones, but it just has this kind of unique feel. And it's also part of all when people talk about runners high, it's the same thing in a set. Like, when when you're running a lot, your body is starting to run low on carbohydrates. Your body starts to make ketones, and you feel this, like, perceptual difference in your brain when you have ketones filling you. So and if you're drinking a shot of ketone IQ, it's the same ketones. So there's kind of different ways to the same endpoint. It it depends on what you're I mean, there's there's some, there's a lot of overlap.

Guest [00:49:51]: There's a lot of also not overlap. Like, if you're fasting, you're in a calorie deficit. You're burning a lot of carbs. You're burning a lot of fat. You're turning that into ketones versus if you're having carbs and ketones at the same time. You're taking in a lot of energy at once. One is better for someone who's more sedentary, maybe just at their desk. One is more appropriate for someone who's running a marathon.

Guest [00:50:15]: I mean, a lot of a lot of you end up eating a lot throughout your day anyway. Like, you end up eating cup 2,000 calories a day, And I I think a lot of people who are just living, I don't know, any more normal life, they just like taking QtonIQ for the way it makes them feel when they're sitting at their desk munching through work. They're not necessarily slamming it every 45 minutes and taking a carb shot every 15 minutes. Like, they're not it's not that serious of a fueling paradigm. It's more just a way to feel mentally switched on with what you're doing.

Cory Nagler [00:50:49]: Yeah. And I think that's a really interesting way to put it because that feels very much in line with what you do for caffeine. When I take caffeine, I'm not thinking, hey. I'm trying to maximize my performance. It's more trying to wake you up and just make you feel good in the morning when you might be a little bit, you know, tired and trying to wake up the brain.

Guest [00:51:05]: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's well said.

Cory Nagler [00:51:06]: Yeah. Cool. In terms of, like, the different ways to use Ketone IQ, I I I know we talked a little bit about Cole Hawker, but it it seems like you have a lot of athletes and maybe even some non athletes who who work with your product a lot. Are there any kind of interesting or novel ways that your your athletes use Ketone IQ that's a little bit different than how you either advertised it or used it yourself?

Guest [00:51:29]: Yeah. Well, I know the surprising one is some people have it right before bedtime. And it's kind of surprising in the sense that we mainly talk about it as high performance energies. It helps you exercise, helps you switch your brain on the interesting thing about having it right before bed, it doesn't interfere with your sleep, and it helps especially when you're training at a really high load. If people feel you ever feel that, like, overtraining when you're like, you've you train really hard and, like, you have a hard time sleeping? I don't know if you ever felt I I sometimes get that.

Cory Nagler [00:52:03]: I definitely felt that.

Guest [00:52:05]: Yeah. That ketones seem to help with that, that your body is basically in this high stress state where you're really taxed and you know you should be resting, but your body is, like, you're too switched on. Your your cortisol's up or or your somehow other like, your sympathetic nervous system's, like, switched on. And it's interesting. Ketones seem to reverse that. They seem to let your body know that there is energy abundance and to kind of relax. So people will take a few different things. People take magnesium, I think, has a very different mechanism of action, but sometimes people have magnesium before bedtime because a lot you deplete a lot of magnesium when you exercise.

Guest [00:52:48]: And having magnesium in particular seems to help a lot of people a lot of athletes to relax and to be able to, like, to have parasympathetic activation and and get into a rest and recovery mode. And And so a few different thing like, people have, like, ketones, magnesium, a couple other things to, to actually help them have higher quality sleep and rest recovery, which pretty inter like, it makes sense in this in a sense, like, if you have if you're thirsty at 10AM and you drink some water, like, you might feel more energetic. And then at 10PM, if you're thirsty, you might have a hard time falling asleep and you drink some water, you then then you'll be able to fall asleep. You won't you won't be tossing and turning. And so how does this, like, magical water thing help you feel energized at 10AM, and how does it help you go to sleep at 10PM? It's similar with ketones. It's that, like, your body's, like, trying to do this thing. It's trying to like, for where you're at in your circadian rhythm, your body is trying to do this thing, and that and that activity takes energy or hydration or what. And, like, you're trying to trying to do work.

Guest [00:53:56]: And if you're able to fuel your body appropriately, then you're able to, like, tap into where your body wants to be at in its circadian rhythm.

Cory Nagler [00:54:06]: Yeah. Maybe this question will come across a bit naive because I'm not by any means a medical professional. But, you know, if if ketones have these properties that make them not only a great energy source around fueling, but also a great way to get energy in the morning and even help you sleep, why haven't doctors come out and and just told us to to fuel on ketones all day long for for anybody?

Guest [00:54:25]: I I think we're getting there. I think that, you know, it's not it's never gonna replace, like, a normal diet. It's it's really you know, it's a supplement on top of like, you still want your other macronutrients, micronutrients. Like, if you're having 2,000 calories a day, I don't think any I don't think any doctor is gonna say, hey. Like, replace a thousand of those with ketones. But I think having ketones, like, throughout your day to have energy is probably better for you than having candy throughout your day. Like, if you're having a 2PM lull and you go have a Kit Kat bar or whatever, and it's, like, spiking your blood sugar, and then you're gonna go sit back at your desk. Like, you're probably better off having ketones in that scenario.

Guest [00:55:05]: So I think we're we're getting there. Like, I I'm I'm very much at the epicenter, so I, like, I I know a lot of doctors and a lot of people who, like, have it on a regular basis and and suggest it. I think we're, you know, not all the way mainstream yet, but I think we will get there.

Cory Nagler [00:55:26]: And and are there any side effects to ketone IQ? You talked a little bit about kind of that that sugar crash. Is is that something you get if you take ketones as a source of energy?

Guest [00:55:35]: No. I think one of the interesting things about it is it doesn't really crash. Like, it's, you don't have that kinda yucky feeling after you ate a bunch of sugar or had a bunch of caffeine, you kinda you feel like you crash. It's a lot more of a gentle ramp. It just kinda you notice maybe that it's not working anymore, but it's not this, like, kinda like negative, oh, man. I I really feel yucky right now.

Cory Nagler [00:56:00]: Yeah. Interesting. So in terms of where Ketone IQ goes next, I think right now, I'm probably not out of line in saying it's it's primarily athletes who are taking this supplement, but there's this possibility that it could become an an everyday thing. What's What's kind of the stepping stone? What do you think is the next step for KetoneIQ in in some of those use cases?

Guest [00:56:25]: Yeah. There's really two. One is we have a research team led by doctor Mansour. He studied metabolism at Oxford University, has his PhD in ketone metabolism, and he runs our research department where that's where we initially did this big research project with the Department of Defense, and we do ongoing research projects there. So a lot of it is funding research ourself and or applying for contracts and grants and or collaborating with other institutions that are looking at things like metabolism or brain health or cancer or other areas of application, and we plug ketones into there. And so the the first overall answer to your question is just continue to grow the body of knowledge around where you can apply ketones. Like, okay. We know a lot of people kinda off label, say that they feel like it helps with their a d d.

Guest [00:57:19]: Like, if they're bouncing all over the place, they take ketone IQ. It feels like this is, like, low dose Adderall without some of the side effects. That's interesting anecdotally. And so it's okay. How do we construct a study around that in a more rigorous way? And, like, actually create knowledge and publications around that particular facet of cognitive performance. Research department is one way this goes mainstream is more more body of knowledge out there. And then the other way that this goes mainstream is getting the word out there to be in more stores, more retail places, more, you know, organic content online, more just, like, getting the word out there. Like, how did Gatorade go from this weird electrolyte thing with the in the swamp in Florida to, like, I don't know.

Guest [00:58:07]: It took it took them a few decades, and they had, like, you know, Michael Jordan sweating blue beads of Gatorade and dunking on everyone, giant orange buckets poured on the sideline, like, all that kind of good old fashioned brand building, getting the word out, getting into more doors, doing more community events, more content, more partners, all that all that type of thing. Yeah. I think we do our job well. It's I mean, it's one of those things, like, it's kinda full circle here. Corey coming back to marathon. It's, like, very simple but hard. Like, you can write down and pay, hey. I'm gonna run-in a two thirty marathon.

Guest [00:58:39]: It's very simple goal, very simple. Hey. Just do more research and then do great brand building around it. It's very simple, but very and it sounds very, very much like marathon running very hard because, I mean, yeah, I I am confident. It is that simple. You just do that every day for the next five, ten years. Like, ketones will be a lot bigger than they are today.

Cory Nagler [00:59:01]: Yeah. And I I'm excited to see it grow. I think even here up in Canada, you know, you can buy it especially online, but you it's it's hard to come by in a lot of stores. So, especially, I think you you talked about other products and formats coming out. I'm really looking forward to seeing some of those.

Guest [00:59:17]: Yeah. I'm stoked. It's, still feels like we're very early. We've come a long way, but we're still still, like, very early. A lot of blue skies in front of us.

Cory Nagler [00:59:25]: Yeah. One of my other favorite non running podcast is how I built this. And and one of the questions, the the host always asks on the show is how much of your company do you attribute to to lock versus skill? If you had to answer that question, what do you think, for for KetoneIQ?

Guest [00:59:43]: It's a great one. I love how I built this. And guy, Ross, actually takes ketone IQ. He's he's shared on his Instagram stories.

Cory Nagler [00:59:50]: Like I see. That's awesome.

Guest [00:59:57]: I think, fundamentally, luck. I think you're just lucky to be alive right now, here now, in this era, in this country, like, in, like, very easy spin of the roulette wheel, and you're born you're, like, born in Cleopatra's time or you're you're probably more you're never born. If you wanna get really metaphysical about it, like, it's like, what are the chances that you were born versus not even born? So I think it's very easy to say, hey. It's like it's very much luck that even got you here today, you know, having good parents and good upbringing, good initial trajectory. The the maybe more nuanced down to earth answer on it is that I think about it as lotto tickets. Like, you have one lotto ticket. You get lucky or not lucky on if did you scratch it and win the lotto? Hard work will always get you more lotto tickets. So some people, like, your first lotto ticket, they boom, win.

Guest [01:00:50]: Like, okay. Born of the trust fund. Boom. Win. Like, your first startup idea, like, makes a billion dollars. Cool. Boom. Win.

Guest [01:00:56]: Like, that can happen. For a lot of people, it doesn't happen, but, like, hard work can assuredly get you more and more lotto tickets. And I've never met someone who, like, scratched 10,000 lotto tickets who didn't eventually win. So luck definitely plays a role in your success. Some people get luckier, some people get less likely, but I think it's like, you're not in control of the lotto tickets. In a way, there's in a sense, there's no point in really caring about that or fixating on it. It's more like, okay. I know if I work hard every day, then I'll have more chances.

Guest [01:01:29]: And, you know, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

Cory Nagler [01:01:35]: Yeah. I like that. There there's a common saying in athletics that I think extends beyond that. You should focus on controlling the controllables. And, I think that same thing applies. You know? You you have to work hard to give yourself the best shot and even running a race, you know? The weather could be complete crap and your PR might be out the window. But if you put in the work, you're gonna be more likely than anything else to to hit that goal.

Guest [01:01:56]: Yeah. Yeah. That's well said.

Cory Nagler [01:01:59]: Thanks. So for anyone listening, if they're interested in checking out Ketone IQ, learning more, or searching for the product, where can they do that?

Guest [01:02:07]: We're at ketone.com. Very easy. I'm on social media. Our company is at ketone. Big surprise there. And Joe, say hi as well. My personal I'm active on there. It's at michael d brandt.

Guest [01:02:22]: And, yeah, drop a line and say hi.

Cory Nagler [01:02:24]: Sweet. Ketone.com. Pretty pretty simple. Was it easy to get that URL?

Guest [01:02:31]: It wasn't it was medium. It it yeah. It was medium. It wasn't, like, given to us, but it, you know, it wasn't impossible. We got it. That's a whole we I feel like we could do a whole other, like, behind the business. Yeah.

Cory Nagler [01:02:46]: That's podcast part two on

Guest [01:02:47]: just the business. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm very bullish on what we're building to where you know, I don't wanna give away part two for everyone listening in, but but I think of domains as, like, Internet real estate. Like, if you believe in proteinorflowers.com or cars.com, if you believe in the category and you're leading it and creating it, like, it the domain, it I don't think about it as an expense. I think about it as an investment that, like, whatever we bought ketone.com for, like, five years from now, ten years from now, it's a saleable asset. Like, it's it's not an expense. It's an investment the same as as if you, like, bought a shop on Main Street and developed it. You can like, it's not an expense.

Guest [01:03:26]: Like, a I don't know. Facebook ad is an expense or, like, a payroll salary is an expense, but, like, this is a I think of it as an asset. And if you're really bullish on your category, being able to own the canonical domain for your category, I think is this could be a smart idea for a lot of businesses.

Cory Nagler [01:03:45]: Yeah. I mean, if everyone takes ketones, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Awesome, Michael. I appreciate it. I I did not know a ton about ketones going in, but super cool to hear the science behind it and how you use it and a lot of your athletes. So I really appreciate you making the time to join me on the podcast.

Guest [01:04:00]: Corey, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

Cory Nagler [01:04:03]: Absolutely. And good luck this weekend.

Guest [01:04:05]: Thank you. It should be fun.

Cory Nagler [01:04:20]: Thanks for listening to the Run to the Top podcast. I'm the showrunner at Runners Connect, where as always, our mission is to help you become a better runner with every episode. You can connect with me on Instagram at Corey underscore Nagler, Worth your Strava by searching Corey Nagler. And please consider connecting with the rest of our team at runnersconnect.net. If you're loving the show, you can help us reach more runners by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you want bonus content, behind the scenes experiences with guests, and premier access to contests, then consider subscribing to our newsletter by going to runnersconnect.net/podcast. I'll see you on the next show, but until then, happy running, everyone.